Riddles and Rumors: Big Batman 3 Plot Points

I agree about the multiple villains treading into dangerous territory. I vaguely remember reading a quote once from Nolan stating that he found Penguin to be an absurd character, and I kind of agree. He works fine in the comic, but in a world meant to be taken seriously? I’m not so sure. The film is in good hands though. I’m not worried, and I can’t wait.

“The character of the Riddler could be compelling, depending on the casting.”

Paul Bettany! He’s the right age, tall skinny Riddler-ish physique, and he’s a great actor when the material is good.

“Why are they throwing in all these other assorted characters?”

If they’re making Arkham a prominent location, it kind of makes sense. Nolan doesn’t make his villains super beings so the guys you listed could easily just be inmates in the asylum.

“Barbara Gordon: All about the casting.”

This strikes me as weird because she’s already turned up in The Dark Knight…

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569927/

“Breaking these walls, between the Superman and Batman franchises, could be epic.”

This strikes me as VERY weird given that the universe Nolan has created for Batman is very much rooted in realistic boundaries. Batman is purely a hand to hand combat guy with sweet gadgets. They make it clear that he’s a guy that works hard to be what he is and his foes aren’t super beings with laser eyes or supernatural abilities. Nolan has gone out of his way to demonstrate that. In the comics Ra’s al Ghul is a supernatural fella but in Batman Begins he’s a title and the metaphorical focus for a philosophy embodied by Liam Neeson’s group. Drop a super powered man from Krypton into that and things kind of go sideway, IMO. Superman (as we know him anyway) just doesn’t jive with Nolan’s Batman world.

The twist of Riddler knowing Batman’s identity would be a fantastic plot point.

If Dr. Freeze and Penguin were merely cameos I don’t think it would be too bad. Penguin could actually be used in the incarnation he is now in comics, as a mid-level crime boss and owner of a popular nightclub, and Batman could shut him down early on, much like Scarecrow was used in TDK to show that Batman’s on to bigger and better things. Dr. Fries could easily be just a a doctor, maybe working for WayneCorp.

The addition of Barbara Gordon could work if she doesn’t become Batgirl, but instead is her current comic identity of Oracle (sans wheelchair) that also figures out Batman’s identity but wishes to help as opposed to what Riddler does.

I loved the reference to Gotham in Superman Returns, and while I would like a mention to Metropolis (or any other DC city like Keystone, Central City) it shouldn’t lead to a crossover since the tones of the films are so disparate.

Guys! Assuming this is all true, this is how DC is building their universe. Smart move?

1. The primary villain will be The Riddler, who will discover Batman’s true identity.

Its possible. Didn’t that one guy who went to the media have red hair? ;)

But, hopefully it won’t be like that. The great thing about a majority of the villains is that we haven’t had horrible back stories AND they’ve been plausible characters. Even two face we were spared “he was burned by acid.”

I couldn’t deal with a guy getting a bump on the head and suddenly being a psychotic genius, and imagine we won’t get that from Nolan.

The real question here is how does this moves Batman forward. Begins was all about how he came about and turned into a “hero.” Knight was all about the negative effects herodom can bring and how this shit in that world is real and kills people. What does the Riddler (who’s so very close to The Joker) really bring to this? Is it going to be that secrets can’t be kept forever?

2. Arkham Asylum makes a return from Batman Begins as a key locale.

That’s fine. I mean, its been prominent anyway. All the villains AND Batman are a little insane.

3. Other classic Batman villains will be injected into the story, including the Penguin and Mr. Freeze (who will be Dr. Fries).

Hopefully it won’t be anything more than a glimpse on these two. The penguin as a mobster can work, but he can’t have an army of penguins that listen to his every command. Mr. Freeze can work too, but he can’t have an ice gun that isn’t somehow plausible. I don’t think they belong in a movie with riddler though. We all saw Spiderman 3 and how it could have been 3 excellent movies and turned out to be one passably mediocre movie.

4. Barbara Gordon will be featured prominently in the story.

So… how many years later is this? Because it brings up questions, given that Gordon’s children have all been very young in this movie, what time it is. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to skip forward in time, though its possible. You’d be losing a lot of the arch.

5. Commissioner Gordon will reference Metropolis – and perhaps Lex Luthor by name – in the story.

I just don’t like the idea much. I know fan boys will enjoy it and it won’t ruin the movie, but when you get down to it a world with superman doesn’t need batman. Superman’s the antithesis. The guy who was given it all, who’s to invulnerable (even if he’s supposedly all character development), and as superman exists now he doesn’t belong in this variant of Gotham, perhaps even as a side note. Maybe we need Nolan to make a couple superman movies first.

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -

Anyhow, here’s how the new movie goes down (in the worst of worlds)

The penguin has some low life thugs under his thumb that do his wishes. He makes enough off of trying to control the politics of the city by rigging elections. He rigs elections by releasing penguins into the sewers. Those birds climb out of the toilets spit up poison into the food of his enemies and the penguin makes a hackneyed play for running for mayor.

Simultaneously Mr. Fries’s daughter or wife is diagnosed with leukemia, incurable. He works for Wane, just with out wane knowing it and conducts horrible experiments on animals by freezing them to perfect cryo. He then tries to freeze his daughter, but he’s caught and even though it works and he’s forced out. He meets the penguin who gives him the cash to suddenly develop weapons out of his left over medical supplies.

The batman finds out and he goes into attack mode, but Riddler already knows who the batman is. He’s had a mild bump on the head though, and so, when Morgan Freedman done’s the cane and the question mark, Bruce Wane is horribly saddened.

Hmmm, could this be the beginning of DC building up to a Justice League movie in the same way that Marvel is building up to their Avengers movie?

Personally, I’m getting tired of the villain-discovers-secret-identity-of-hero bit. Max Shreck, Catwoman, Riddler, and Two-Face (I think) all knew who was behind Batman’s mask in the first round of movies, not to mention Vicki Vale. Ra’s al Ghul and Rachel Dawes find out who the Bat is in Batman Begins. Similar things happened in the Spider-man movies. And Daredevil. And Iron Man. It would be astounding if Batman got through an entire film *without* anyone finding out his “secret” identity…

@Gary Eng Walk – Maybe it’s a commentary on how silly it is to think that the people who know you well wouldn’t know it was you under that mask after interacting with you? I always found the idea of the secret identity a little ridiculous. Rachel Dawes, for example, couldn’t NOT know that Batman was Bruce Wayne after interacting with Batman a few times. If she’s been his woman, she is intimately familiar with every part of Bruce, from his body language to the inflection he gives certain words. Same with Ra’s al Ghul. Does a teacher not know his student?

I guess I always found the idea that you know someone very well and somehow can’t guess who they are because of a layer of fabric to be dumb. I get that it’s a super hero mainstay, but I don’t mind it being violated because it seems nonsensical to me.

Your assuming Nolan is back on. Right now he’s finishing up “Inception” and has stated that he does not want to do a third Batman movie. it’s like Cameron with T1 and T2. How could Nolan top The Dark Knight? The plot points all sound good, but I’ll hold off on judging until I see a “Post-Production” next to it’s title on IMDB. Hollywood always can AND will fuck up a (comic) book adaptation

speaking as a fanboy in the truest sense i have a lot to say about this. for starters nolan said he would do a third batman post inception and david s. goyer will be doing the writing as mentioned. but as with bb and tdk nolan will have a hand in the story, he has openly stated he would never do a mr freeze as mr freeze, so dr. fries sure go thats fine but there would be no point since nolan said he wouldn’t go past that point. but i’m jumping ahead, let me start from #1 the riddler and his incredible talent for solving riddles, of course he’ll know who batman is its pretty much what he does, he currently is a detective in the comic book series where he rivals the abilities of batman. #2 arkham asylum is a very important part of the batman and gotham city as a whole, i can’t imagine where it would come in except at the end becauseif you’re going to make a movie with the riddler he would be running around leaving clues and most likely not get caught til the end but i’d like to see what they do since bb made arkham kinda boring looking #3 you guys can just stop right now!! do a little research nolan has actually specifically mentioned these two will never appear in his movies, i already mentioned freeze, but i had heard rumors they were speculating about using hoffman so i looked into and found a statement from nolan that said he would never use the penguin… so stop it!! #4 barbara gordon already is a character!! its already been mentioned in the comments but she’s jim’s wife!! besides everyone knows barbara is jim’s daughter and that would make no sense since jim’s kids are still too young, by the time “barbara” was old enough to be a main character batman would be in his thirties and in a realistic world pushing his prime, plus nolan is against the idea of sidekicks he’s already ruled out the idea of a robin. so if this is right it just means mrs gordon will be a bigger character so casting doesn’t mean shit since she’s already cast! #5 any fanboy knows nolan is exec prod for the next superman movie and with DC Entertainment announcing its board last week there will be plenty of DC characters coming to life, such as Green Lantern with 2011 release date so the entire DC Universe will be getting intertwined!!

*************major spoilers, inside info**********
everyone must remember two things first off when david nolan made the dark knight he knew he was making a sequal also chris nolan always likes to stay ahead of the audience also this is chris nolan’s batman world and not the comic world he is directing so there are some major differences,but because of heath ledgers death some tweaks were made. I received so much good info from my source i don’t know where to start but here we go.

the movie starts about a year after the dark knight, batman is now a wanted criminal because of this wayne has shut down batman temporarily and is working at wayne trying to do good with medical research and not military research.
during this time period gotham is again in chaos but a controlled chaos led by semi gangster oswald copplepot called the penguin (has not yet been casted) because of his stature. he is a arms dealer and controls all crime but is also very political and yes he will have a weaponized umbrella that we will see throughout the film but only used at the end. here’s where it gets interesting

the riddler is definitely in the film and has already been casted. this was the suprise news i received. chris nolan already snuck him in the last film. He was the man named coleman reese, in the dark knight he finds batmans identity. he was snuck in as a easter egg,get it coleman reese-Mr.Reese-Mysteries. in this film he will call himself the man of mysteries. they will show a backstory about his life being ruined and the loss of his family because of the joker threat.he ends up being a murderer highly sophisticated almost like from the movie saw. he is physically a nobody and will have no physical confrontation with batman in the entire film but he will kind of be batmans mental superior and tormenter since he also know batmans identity. at all his murder scenes he will leave behind riddles that appear to make no sense to the murder till the end. the riddles are not riddles to the murder but to batmans identity as bruce wayne. he signs his riddles with the term the man of mysteries, he gets the name riddler from the joker who he sends letters to at arkham. the joker in this movie receives the riddles signed ? before the murders happen.

the joker is in this film, originally he was to escape but because of heath’s death they found a new way to add him in the film which makes total sense. he will be a patient at arkham and in the “realistic” world that they are trying to create he will wear no makeup and will just have sever scars on his face from my source(paul bettany was offered the role ). once they realize that he is receiving the same riddles before the murders the city sends in Dr Harleen Quinn i hate to say this but my source says sarah michelle geller will take the part. Dr quinn and joker will have a hannibal lector-clarece type relationship at first until the joker pretty much drives her insane but unlike the comics she ends up killing him at the end and takes on his persona.

also mr freeze will be in the movie as dr.fries, he is being set up for a 4th batman movie along with harley quinnn. Dr fries works for wayne enterprises as a medical scientist but because of his dying wife begins doing cryogenic research on animals, near the end of the film he will end up perfecting it on animals and will end up experimenting on a human, Lucious Fox head of wayne enterpriese, yes unfortunately morgan freeman is killed in this film, dr fries ends up being caught and convicted for the criminally insane and is sent to arkham.

batman will end up coming out of retirement in the first half of the movie, throughout the beginning he will be bashed by the papers and the news while penguin will kinda be looked upon as a savior who got rid of the freaks. Bruce Wayne understands what he’s done from the last 2 movies and will now turn a blind eye to criminals like the penguin since gangsters will just replace gangsters. but when the man of mysteries aka the riddler is committing murders he decides he will try to stop the freaks, also after a couple riddles he learns that they lead to his identity being released. the main plot between him and the riddler is when he starts trying to beat the cops to the riddles and him and the riddler get into a mental cat and mouse game. the mayor of gotham will end up asking the penguin to hunt down the batman, he will offer him immunity for past crimes and also legitimize the penguins business interests.

the movie will end with batman at arkham trying to get to the joker so he can figure out the riddler, harley quinn will kill the joker before this. the penguins goons find out he is at arkham and try to use excessive force in getting to him but end up damaging arkham to the point everyone is freed from his cell. the mayor of gotham will eventually quarantine the entire island and cut it off, so the fourth film will have batman with mr freeze,harley quinn and all the crazies on the island while the riddler and penguin will be in gotham. the fourth film from what i hear will definitely be the last.

don’t worry robin is not in the movie, bruce wayne will go to a circus show and just mention that little dick grayson glides like a “robin” and also barbara gordon will oversee and here her father and batman speaking to each other and will bring up a curiosity but definitely no batgirl. it seems though there is a chance we may see a batgirl in the fourth film.

The reason why the most recent series of films – particularly Dark Knight – is far and away better than the previous attempts (and the comics from the 60′s going back to the beginning) is the suspension of disbelief. Nothing hokey and as real and believable as possible. Taking a thumbprint from a shattered bullet in a brick was boneheaded but otherwise DK was untouchable. A few things that future films must avoid: NO Robin, EVER. This character was just a way to get little kids to identify with the action. Also, no silly caricatures – Thermon’s Ivy and Carey’s Riddler being the most cringing examples – the villain must be absolutely sincere (keep Johhn Depp miles away from these films). Also, no Superman. This blows away the realism. DK is plausible; Superman is not. Let him have his own universe. Further, keep the villains down in number. If the series has longevity, dole out the villains slowly and don’t jam them in there like the franchise is already spent.
One more thing – keep the location real, not cartoony. Lower Wacker Drive is a real location, as is the rail Loop. The monorail in Batman Begins was way out of place.
By the way, the Burton films (sets and characterizations) were just the eighties version of the 1960′s TV show – nothing real whatsoever. He should never have been the director.

Gary Eng – You are right. The revealed identity schtick is totally corny. In Burton’s films Batman was practically wetting his pants to reveal his identity. There was also a touch of this in DK. Leave it a secret, already!

I just don’t want batman 3 to suck.
PLEASE Peter, I KNOW you have the power to change this.

don’t make it suck.

please.

please?