The Flaw in Microsoft’s Windows 8 Logic

At the very least, Microsoft should have provided a more gradual path to touch by introducing it first as an alternative form of input.

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Jared Newman for TIME

One of the more important assumptions in Microsoft’s design of Windows 8 comes from the company’s observations of how people used touch on smartphones and tablets. Microsoft clearly understood that touch was a key way people interacted with the screens on their various mobile devices.

However, the reason people adapted to touch so fast is that on smartphones and tablets, the finger is the best option for navigating content on a small screen. There is no room for a trackpad or mouse on these products, and touch input was deemed the best form of navigation at the time. Of course, user interfaces on small screens are bound to someday include more use of voice and gestures, but touch will still be the main form of input and navigation on these smaller-screen personal computers for many years.

On the other hand, PCs and laptops have bigger screens and have used keyboards, mice and trackpads as input devices for most of their existence. It appears that Microsoft’s logic for Windows 8 has been that if touch is good for smartphones and tablets, it must be good for PCs and laptops, too. However, in our current research with PC and laptop users, we are sensing that this type of thinking, at least for traditional desktop PC and laptop users, is flawed.

For one thing, most PC users over 16 have been trained to use keyboards, mice and trackpads and are very comfortable with these forms of input. Nobody in our research has said, “Boy, I sure wish I could touch my PC or laptop screen to get things done.” Their use of keyboards, mice and trackpads has become second nature to them. Adding touch means that they must learn a new form of input.

While adding touch input to screens is not a bad thing, people being able to adapt quickly to touch as a primary form of user interface input on larger PCs does not happen overnight. At the very least, Microsoft should have provided a more gradual path to touch by introducing it first as an alternative form of input.

That means that instead of pushing for more vendors to put touch-based screens on their PCs and laptops, which added a significant cost to these products last year, there should have been more time spent making trackpads more touch friendly and getting people used to pinching, zooming and using other touch-based gestures on these trackpads first.

Apple has done this with its Magic Trackpad, an accessory for its line of desktop computers. Key gestures like pinching, zooming, and moving windows from side to side are hallmarks of the Magic Trackpad. In fact, the Magic Trackpad’s gestures mimic the same gestures found on the iPhone and iPads, without requiring Apple to add touchscreens to its desktops and laptops.

Early on, Apple’s scientists studied the kinesiology of arm movements in relationship to keyboards and mice, and concluded that implementing any gestures into the user interface worked best through a trackpad. The company also determined that picking the hand up from the keyboard area and moving it to touch the screen was unnatural, and factored that into the final decision to add gestures to the Magic Trackpad instead.

Another thing we keep hearing is that touch is not great for precise cursor positioning, especially in spreadsheets, desktop publishing documents and any other application where pinpoint cursor control is key to the program. This is one of the major reasons we are not seeing any serious demand for touch-based laptops or PCs from IT departments; Windows 8 with touch is just not a priority for them at the moment. This could change as new PCs and laptops with Windows 8 move into IT channels through the upgrade process, but even then, touch as a user interface may not be important to them. One of the more interesting things we have observed when a touch-based system has gone into IT and SMB segments is that the attach rate for a mouse goes up exponentially.

So why did Microsoft rush a new user interface to the PC market if the folks using PCs were happy with the interface they already had? And why did Microsoft not concentrate on a gradual introduction to touch via some sort of smart trackpad first that could ease people into a touch interface that they had not been asking for?

The answer to the first question lies in Microsoft’s desire to differentiate and, to an extent, leapfrog Apple and Samsung by making touch central to the future of PCs. I suspect that Microsoft not only wanted to use touch as a differentiator, but to one-up the competition and try to resume a leadership position in operating system software in the desktop and laptop world.

The answer to the second question is harder to deduce, but from what I have heard from the OEMs, Microsoft was so enamored with the idea of a new, groundbreaking, touchscreen-based operating system interface that the idea of enhancing trackpads with gestures was an afterthought. I have heard that the trackpad makers lobbied hard to get Microsoft to pay attention to what Apple had done with the Magic Trackpad, and to be serious about locking down gesture specifications for trackpad manufacturers early on in Windows 8′s development. If what I hear from vendors is correct, any trackpad specifications that would mimic touchscreen gestures came well after the official launch of Windows 8 last October.

At Microsoft’s recent developers conference, the unnatural aspect of touching a screen was very clear from watching how thousands of people were trying to use their Surface Pros and laptops with Windows 8 on them. If they were sitting up in their chair and needed to touch the screen, they had to physically move forward to do it. They would then sit back and type. And, again, if they had to touch the screen, they had to do what we jokingly refer to as bowing to it.

But those with laptops featuring trackpads that were used as primary input devices sat straight up in their chairs and nonchalantly worked with no interruption in body movements at all. This is one reason that I really have trouble with the Windows 8 touch-based laptops I use; I touch the screen only sparingly while continuing to use the trackpad for most of my actual interface navigation.

There is a new product just coming to market that embraces gestures but still allows a person to remain upright and keep working in a natural way. It is coming from Leap Motion, a well-funded startup based in San Francisco. Leap Motion provides a small controller that connects to your USB port and can interpret your gesture motions to let you manipulate 3D objects, wave at the screen to advance Windows 8 tile pages and even draw using your fingers, all while still sitting upright. You don’t have to lean forward to use the touchscreen itself to navigate the operating system and its apps.

People had been telling me about this product ever since it won the Breakout Digital Trend prize at the SXSW Interactive festival this March. I finally got to see a demo in person and am highly intrigued with this product. It introduces a new and yet highly natural way to integrate a form of touch without having to actually lean forward and touch a screen to do so. It works very well and on Windows 8, it is a breath of fresh air when it comes to making gestures work well as part of the interface. The $80 device will begin shipping at the end of this month. Check out the video demo below:

A related question is whether Apple will ever bring touchscreens to MacBooks and iMacs. I really doubt it.

The company’s human factors team is one of the best in the world, and their study of the kinesiology behind the motions used to navigate laptops and PCs drives their position on this. If Apple were to add a touchscreen to any laptop-like product, it would probably come through some type of hybrid or convertible that works like a MacBook when the screen is attached and like an iPad when it is in tablet mode. There have been rumors that Apple is doing something like this, but as of now, they’re still rumors.

Over time, as cheaper versions of laptops with touchscreens and Windows 8 on them hit the market, the touch interface will just become an optional way that people interact with their PCs and desktops. However, I believe that the uptake in Windows 8 would have been much better if Microsoft had provided a more gradual evolution of touch first through smart trackpads, especially on the low-end laptops and PCs without touchscreens. But to force Windows 8 on all PC users was flawed logic, and it cost Microsoft and its partners dearly by way of reduced demand for PCs at a time when tablets are already putting pressure on PC demand. And it may be years before IT buyers move to Windows 8.

At the moment, Windows 8 adoption has a lot of challenges ahead when it comes to gaining serious traction with business users and most consumers. It will be interesting to watch how these choppy waters are navigated over the next few years and to see if Windows 8 will become the big hit Microsoft and its partners hoped it will be.

Bajarin is the president of Creative Strategies Inc., a technology industry analysis and market-intelligence firm in Silicon Valley. He contributes to Big Picture, an opinion column that appears every Monday on TIME Tech.

110 comments
xtraxtra
xtraxtra

Windows 8 is a great and attractive OS. personally though I think it's more convenient to use a mouse with it on tablets since most of the work is done on the desktop mode.

I have been using this virtual touchpad for some times now and it sure makes life on the desktop mode easier  https://www.appymousing.com

RJzhou
RJzhou

Best control has already been invented by IBM decades ago. With the small track point (red dot) you can move mouse cursor effortlessly while typing, there no need for posture adjustment and anything.  Just stay there and type. For typing, these things still need to come from an ear of type writers.

DalVI
DalVI

This is a great critique of Windows 8. I also think that the touch interface is more suitable for phones and tablets, where users tend to hold the gadget with one hand and use the other hand for touch interface. But in a typical office work setting, where users are seated and the pc is set up on work desks, the touch interface is just not the practical interface. At work, I hardly find a need to touch my screen. It's more practical to use the mouse and keyboard. (Just try slicing an image in Photoshop to know how I mean =) .  Also, I seldom find a need to use Windows 8 in metro mode while at work. I prefer the desktop mode, where I can control the size of the windows, drag it to where I want it on the screen, side by side with other traditional desktop apps. 

therealdude
therealdude

Using touch as a source of input is ok, making the OS's UI constantly feel like an airport car rental kiosk isn't. My biggest gripe about Win 8 is the "fullscreen-ness" of it. It gets anoying and cumbersome to constantly switch between screens when I used to be able to just select something from a menu. I read somewhere where MS griped that people weren't using their "apps". At least for me, that's why I don't and even get rid of anything I can that takes over my whole screen the moment I find it.

DanWinchester
DanWinchester

Interesting that so many people feel they have to use touch to control Win8. Using a mouse or pad works just as well. 

robert3379
robert3379

I read all of these reviews about windows 8 and the touch portion of it, and how touch is not good for the desktop. I have a touch screen all in one with 23" display and I position it right at the edge or my desk tilted back so it is all most laying flat and I am looking down at the screen, the keyboard is on a slide tray and the mouse sits on the side of the screen, and this setup works great and I use the touch screen as much as I use the mouse or keyboard, and programs do seem to run faster on windows 8, also I am not a tablet person, I just don't like holding them all the time, so a touch screen laptop is my choice. from my experience touch work even on large screens.

mschwanke
mschwanke

There must have been quite a few factors involved in the decision making that lead to the "touch first" design philosophy for Windows 8.  I am sure that one of them has been MS holy grail for like 15 years of having a single "code base" for Windows.  From laptops to server Windows is Windows was the rule for a long time.  There were, of course, tweaks here and there.

Now we have been forced to deal with Metro on business computers where it really just gets in the way because no options or user choice were allowed.  Metro or Classic modes should be an option.  Classic should include the start menu and not, by default, launch Metro full screen apps when documents are opened and links clicked.  User choice was always offered in the past.  But not this time.

I think the another major motivation was app store income.  Apple gets a lot of profit in the sale of "apps" and I am sure for Microsoft this weighed heavily in the decision making.  How else to explain jamming the new interface down our throats.

estimates
estimates

Windows 7 is bullet proof. I see no need to "upgrade" to windows 8. I bought an extra copy of it so I have  for the next computer I build.

jamesS
jamesS

Um . . . or you could just plug in a mouse and keyboard, install 8.1, and boot into desktop mode. Then what is the point of Metro/Touch UI if you just bypass it? Also why be forced to purchase a touch screen device (Laptop/Desk top) when you are not going to use it? I have a Smartphone and a Nook Color and both have a touch based UI which is fine BECAUSE when I use them they are in my hand, my Desktop has a 27 inch (Non Touch) monitor, keyboard and mouse and it is not in my hand when I use it and that is the whole point of why I will not use Windows 8 on my Desktop. #2 reason is that I spent $250 for my monitor and a touch enabled monitor would have set me back $1200-1600. So by MS logic I should spend an extra $1000-1400 just so I can touch my monitor?

jmartinezlinan
jmartinezlinan

Look, Microsoft is not customer friendly. That is no secret. Remember Internet explorer? If tablets are king & 93% are running Safari & Chrome, where is MS browser? It's being held for ransom.  Microsoft dictated that only W7/8 buyers could  could have IE9/10. They ceded browser wars (& search sphere) to competitors  after their disastrous Vista release. Lousy business sense that no one customer affairs for MS has more say so. Consumer electronics!!! Hello. You do know my employers only buys computers for their business, right? Teenagers decide what is "cool".  Does MS even have a customer relations team?

Tojuro
Tojuro

There was a time when we communicated with computers through punch cards, then a command line...then a GUI.    Do you see the the progress here?   Keyboards/Mouse are natural to us because that was the best option to abstract control for our time.     Our kids will expect the computer (in pocket, wrist, desk, wall, etc) to respond in the most natural way -- voice, touch, gesture, even predicting our next response....whatever is right for each context.

Microsoft could have kept Windows where it was at, and everyone would have been comfortable forever......Windows would whittle away to obsolescence.    They could have provided the SDK's for touch in the background (Win 7 actually did this) and those features would have whittled away in the background while 99% of users would go on communicating with computers in Pavlovian fashion -- keyboard and mouse.

What they did was push the changes up front and center......and change is never easy.    It pushes people out of their comfort zone.  On top of that, the first version of any major software never gets it 100% right.     

Over time, people will adjust and the software will get better.

Five years from now, this article will be looked back on as quaint..     File it with the complaints about the Microsoft Office Toolbar Ribbon (2007), Windows XP (2001) or the complaints about the Start Button in Windows 95 ("no more program manager!?" - 1995).

Denesius
Denesius

I've been saying for years that Gates has lost touch with the real world and its population. MS wanted to take a innovative leadership role, so they came up with something that is clunky, unnatural, and what this author failed to mention: computer resource intensive, and without any serious benefits in return.

oblio9090
oblio9090

Drats, Microsoft,

Having to type-search to launch a program or file just doesn't work for me; I just can't seem to remember all the names of all the programs and files on my computer. 

Imagine if there was a categorized, hierarchical list of all my programs accessible from the menu bar that would keep track of stuff for me, that would be so convenient! Then I could simply use my mouse to easily navigate and find the needed item. Wow, that would be awesome.

In the meantime, how do we all switch back to windows 7?

The_Q_Continuim
The_Q_Continuim

I kind of disagree with the premise of this article.  While I think it was a mistake for MS to move so completely toward touch in the desktop arena, I don't see any problem in adding touch as an input option to portable computers (laptops) and tablets.

The real mistake MS has made with Win 8 is two-fold.  First, they've done away with a serious chunk of their customization options.  Were these in place, people with desktops or non-touch-screen laptops could simply optimize Win 8 for a mouse/keyboard environment.  Part of what has made Windows great (especially Win7) is the ability to use it the way you want (mostly).  I mean, it's not quite as customizable as Linux, but it is definitely more customizable  than Win8 (off the shelf).

Second, they are locking things down tight a-la MS 1995.  They're trying to force users into doing things their way, and even trying to lock people into Internet Explorer (again).  This is all bad news for us users/consumers.

I hate it when I read an article applauding the way Apple does things, and how MS should be more like Apple when Windows 8 is already a blatant move to BE a lot more like Apple.  I don't want my devices and computers locked down tight.  I don't want to have to hack something to gain access to the root directory.  I don't want to be locked into a walled-garden ecosystem.  You shouldn't want any of these things either.

Limiting choice and ownership of our devices is much, much worse than adding a new way in which to interface with your computer.  People are smart enough to poke a screen, and you can still use a mouse and keyboard if you want.  Win 8.1 improves the experience significantly.  No, the real problem is Win RT.

daniel026
daniel026

I think in a few years time this article will be one of those that people look back on and laugh. It will be like Thomas Watson's famous quote that "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers". 

Touch is the future. Once you start using it you won't go back, and young people will be dumbfounded that we ever had "non touch" screens. 

Let's agree to look at this article again in 2015. I guarantee you will laugh. Don't resist this just because you don't like where the idea came from. Let go people, or get left behind.

JoshVaughn
JoshVaughn

@DanWinchester its either crybaby's whining about something 'different' - the start screen - and apple sheep just being sheep. its entertaining...

auronlu
auronlu

@robert3379 Many people's necks cannot do what you have to do to look at a screen lying flat. Also, glare from overhead lights.

If you want touch control, get a trackpad with built in gestures like pinch and zoom and such.

I've got one on the left of my keyboard. It gets used all the time, whereas the mouse on the right side of my keyboard probably needs a new battery.

(Apple made the transition really gradual: the mouse surface actually has touch gestures built in as well, like a tablet only curved, so many of us got used to that before tablets came out.) 

The_Q_Continuim
The_Q_Continuim

@jamesS Well, let's say you're buying a new computer that comes with Windows 8.  It's likely still cheaper than a MacBook (touchscreen or no), and you can get around the features of Windows 8 you don't like.  I was simply pointing out that there is some choice in the matter, and that no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to poke your monitor.

That being said, I have MAJOR problems with Win RT specifically BECAUSE of the lack of choice.

therealdude
therealdude

@jmartinezlinan Your post reminds me of what really needs to be done at MS to make it better--fire Ballmer. Ever since he's taken over they've gotten progressively worse at not caring at all about their customers and their corporate strategy reflects it. First there's what they did to IE, like you said. Then there's the strategy they've taken with Win 8, Xbox, etc--all of which have been unpopular or at least controversial compared to past products.

brianswilson
brianswilson

@jmartinezlinan Of Course MS has a Customer Relations team; and whatever they recommend, MS does the exact opposite.

CR Team: Hey, let's focus on fixing the annoying bugs in our software, improve security, and not scramble the menu options and make everyone have to retrain their entire staff just to use our overpriced, buggy MS Office Suite.

MS Management: Nope, let's hide common options by putting them under weird locations and stupid icons, and ignore known problems and security issues that have been present for the last ten years.  Yeah, and we're Microsoft so there's nothing they can do about it.

Tojuro
Tojuro

@jmartinezlinan Mac's aren't allowed on many corporate networks.   They just aren't safe enough.   The problem is that their biggest security advantage is obscurity -- bad people don't bother targeting something with 5% of the market.   Coincidentally, Vista was horrible for a reason.....they lost focus on the customer because they were overly focused on making Windows secure (something that worked).   

Also, Mac's are now powered by Intel chips, which is a relatively new thing.  They announced that they were making the change (ppc to Intel), and every Mac computer sold before that date was obsolete.  That's an advantage you have when you are dealing with single digit marketshare.    Windows has 90% of the market, and any change in one place is felt everywhere.   Now, contrast that --> you are mad that they don't make a new browser for a 10 year old OS, while Mac drops the entire system architecture overnight.   

I don't know what's cool, but the fact that Windows has 90% of the market says all you really need to know.

mschwanke
mschwanke

@Tojuro Nonsense, the author (and other commenters) are correct, touch makes sense on portable devices that you are already holding in your hand anyway or are too small to include keyboards/trackballs.  Touch does not make sense in a desktop productivity environment. A dense UI and precise control of input is too important for many (most) business applications.  Don't try to tell me it is easier to create a well formatted document on a touch only tablet and I won't try to tell you that it is more convenient to try and sit on my couch with a keyboard and mouse.

  My point is that there are needs for both types of computing, mobile/portable and desktop, and I really don't think either is going away soon.  With Windows 8, MS has forced an interface designed for touch first, with other input options shoe-horned in afterwards, and it shows.  The Metro interface is less efficient for running a desktop computer in my opinion because of the short-shrift given my mouse and keyboard.

  MS could have easily built a Metro sidebar for Windows 8 that let us enjoy our Windows Phone & Tablet apps on our desktops that was OPTIONAL.  I believe they had their own reasons ($$$) for not giving us those options.

JoshVaughn
JoshVaughn

@oblio9090 there is its called the start screen. when you click "all apps" it shows a list of all the programs installed in the "start menu". wow that was hard.

jschmidt
jschmidt

@The_Q_Continuim I guess the question would be, why should someone have to pay for the touch capability if they aren't going to use it. Apple seems to limit their touch to Ipads and phones not the desktop/laptop world. MS is trying to force people to touch and it doesn't work. They may as well stay with 7. So why pay for something you aren't going to use? Unless 8 gives you more than 7, despite touch.

marshall.staxx
marshall.staxx

@The_Q_Continuim

"I don't want my devices and computers locked down tight.  I don't want to have to hack something to gain access to the root directory.  I don't want to be locked into a walled-garden ecosystem.  You shouldn't want any of these things either."

Forgetting for a moment that your premises are irrelevant, if not outright false, are you suggesting that because you don't like Apple, no one else should? 

That's some hubris.


The_Q_Continuim
The_Q_Continuim

@daniel026 Personally, I miss buttons quite a bit.  I think a combination of buttons and touch is the actual future.  

PaulConnell
PaulConnell

@daniel026 "Touch is the future. Once you start using it you won't go back, and young people will be dumbfounded that we ever had "non touch" screens."

Only if, in this future of yours, no one uses a computer for any remotely technical task.  Touch, as it exists today, will *never* be an acceptable input method for things like CAD, the majority of graphics and design work, most audio work, most video editing, probably most spreadsheet and text entry work, etc.  

For anyone to make the claim that touch is the ultimate, necessary and only input method for all of future computing screams that they've never used a computer for anything requiring even a modest amount of precision. 

mschwanke
mschwanke

@Tojuro @jmartinezlinan Sorry to say but you seem a bit clueless in your comments.  The switchover to Intel processors on Macs is ancient history in computer terms.  It happened like 6 years ago.  Apple wne to great lengths to provide mechanisms and tools so that software would work on PPC or Intel based makes for some time too.  Macs are used in corporate environments in lots of places where it makes sense.  Macs have the forte, notably in graphic production & design.

One last thought, in today's computing world, Windows makes up less than half of the market.  Like it or not, believe it or don't most computing these days is done on iOS and Android devices.  It is another reason MS thought they had to do the tiles thing.

jmartinezlinan
jmartinezlinan

@Tojuro @jmartinezlinan How absurd. There is no bigger security failure than Microsoft.  Windows works for enterprise because its "just enough". If you don't need Apple graphics, speed or security then you pay just enough to meet your needs. PDF files & email.  Exactly what 90% market are you referring to? Corporate purchases dating back to 95'. Combining 1995,millennium,2000,XP, Vista etc? The article is Microsoft's failure to read current market needs, not the rewards for stealing code, manipulating then retarding the personal computing market. No one is trying to go back to the PC except Ms. Their hybrid is a ridiculous  attempt to extend the life of an end-of-life product. I am sure some company is still the 90% leader in CD manufacturing. What does that matter?

Tojuro
Tojuro

@mschwanke @Tojuro I never said any form of communicating with computers is going away.    Keyboards and mice will be here for a long time......touch support doesn't impact that in any way.  

The point is that OS' need to communicate on all levels and PEOPLE need to be pushed to communicate using all methods.    Microsoft is doing both of those things -- preparing Windows to receive and using Windows to force us to transmit.   

Change is frustrating you.    It's supposed to do that.     If it's really a big problem -- stay with Windows 7, because they'll improve the interface on 8 more as time goes on.     

TzymotraklimJorkzinw
TzymotraklimJorkzinw

@Tojuro Exactly. Touch makes no sense on large devices. Remember the time before TV's had a remote control and you had to physically get up and touch your TV to change the channel, well, my monitor is a 55 inch TV. I have it across the room. I like my wireless keyboard and mouse. I don't want to get up, walk across the room and touch my TV. Microsoft was totally wrong about touch and bigger devices. Ballmer is not no visionary. He's a fat idiot. 

JoshVaughn
JoshVaughn

the only thing touch about windows 8 is the start screen/metro apps. the rest of the OS functions just like 7 with improvements:

AppLocker*
    BitLocker
    BranchCache*
    Client Hyper-V
    DirectAccess*
    Security Auditing
    Smart Cards
    Windows To Go*

plus things like greatly improved VPN and Remote Access, etc. Its not just a touch start screen. the entire OS improved.

The_Q_Continuim
The_Q_Continuim

@marshall.staxx @The_Q_Continuim As ZacPetit down there is saying, I never said nobody should like Apple, nor did I particularly go out of my way to bash Apple in my post.

I'm simply complaining about my inability to access all areas of a device that I own.  It's like buying a house, but being locked out of the basement so you can't inspect the foundation.  I think that's wrong.

Sheesh, don't be so touchy. :-)

ZacPetit
ZacPetit

@marshall.staxx @The_Q_Continuim I'm pretty sure he didn't ever say "I don't like Apple." He's pointing out that users should want to have more choices with their computers, rather than fewer. He makes a good point.

jschmidt
jschmidt

BTW- there has already been a lot of pushback in the electronics in cars as being too complicated. Starting a car should not be rocket science.

jschmidt
jschmidt

@PaulConnell @daniel026 unless you use a stylus, touch using a finger is not specific enough to use with excel cells, or even editing. It is a pain on any device, and the smaller the device the more of a pain. And blocking is a problem as well. That is why the mouse works well. The human finger is just too big. So if touch is the future, we are in trouble. Verbal commands is the next big step but that has huge hurdles and major changes in thought patterns as how to give commands. As Scotty would have said, typing is quaint, but it works.

ZacPetit
ZacPetit

@PaulConnell @daniel026 If by "touch" @daniel026 means "the future of touch" then he is absolutely right. You use your mouse because it is the optimization of natural hand extension and accuracy. Very soon you will be able to control your screen by waving your hands in front of it or just by looking at it. Both of these technologies (particularly the latter) have the potential to be at least as accurate (if not more accurate) than the mouse.

Tojuro
Tojuro

@mschwanke @Tojuro @jmartinezlinan He was mad that Microsoft wasn't releasing a new web browser for a 12 year old operating system (XP, from 2002) and you consider 2 years of support for flipping the whole system architecture acceptable?.....Right.   Don't put it past Apple to flip Intel for ARM either - the rumors are out there.   

Market share is kind of nebulous right now -- traditionally you could break it by server and desktop, but now it goes into mobile, tablet, desktop, wearables, etc and more and more processing will actually be done in the cloud, as time goes on (local OS will be irrelevant).     Still, my point stands -- Windows is omnipresent in corporate computing vs Apple serving a niche.   Apple hasn't taken its market lead in tablets to really build inroads either.    BYOD is DOA and no one has really offered an ideal solution, yet.  

jmartinezlinan
jmartinezlinan

 Stealing the whole OS is what Microsoft paid Apple billions in their settlement.  That bloated brick is what uses up 30g (w/Office) on a 32G Surface.  Apple's OS is as my old professor would say. Elegant. 2G more or less. Paying off Apple instead of watching it get buried is one of MS biggest mistakes. Another was not following thru on their initial 2003 Windows Mobile smartphone  product. Redmond wasn't about to compete with it's own desktop OS. LOL. Pirates always go for quick cash. They don't build.

JoshVaughn
JoshVaughn

@jmartinezlinan its a monthly patch schedule, not weekly. and it patches all microsoft products, not just an OS. and Windows works in the enterprise because that's what its developed for. Crapple products are geared towards consumers and ad designers who need fancy graphics. There's a reason companies of hundreds of people don't deploy Apple only products - it wouldn't work in that large of a setting. That's why BYOD is huge right now. Its allowing those people who want their iPad on corporate network. But it stills requires the Microsoft infrastructure to work.

jmartinezlinan
jmartinezlinan

@The_Q_Continuim @jmartinezlinan @Tojuro Secure? You have a WEEKLY patch Tuesday & you consider that safe? Find an XP system. Back it up. Reinstall OS. Now count the holes that MS is still patching when you update system. . There is a reason China clones/sells  Windows on street corners. It's the easiest system to breech.

The_Q_Continuim
The_Q_Continuim

@jmartinezlinan @Tojuro lol, I hope you're not implying that MS is the only company that steals code.

Also, Windows is actually very secure, he kind of has a point.  I don't see the hybrid as an extension of an end-of-life product either, as it's a relatively new concept for them.  *shrug* 

Tojuro
Tojuro

@TzymotraklimJorkzinw @Tojuro Touch makes sense in conference rooms.     Gesture and voice probably makes more sense in living rooms, but with economies of scale making the cost negligible....it would be nice to have a touch screen 55".     

I like my keyboard too, btw.