Why in the World Would You Need a 64-bit Smartphone?

Don't let the iPhone 5S's 64-bit-ness (or straw-manning about what Apple's claiming) fool you.

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Apple

Let’s answer that question straight up front: you don’t. Not today, where nothing exists that’ll take advantage of the 64-bit architecture in Apple’s A7 processor — not in a meaningful way.

Apple’s rightly claiming it has the first phone-based 64-bit chip, but it’s also future-proofing — a little like noting a TV supports UHDTV despite the absence of 2160p (3840 by 2160 pixels at 16:9) content. At some point that content shows up, but in the meantime, you’re paying for a promise. And in the iPhone 5S’s case, you’ll want to weigh the device’s other assets before making a decision.

On the other hand, there’s what Apple’s saying and what the media’s saying Apple’s saying about the iPhone 5S, and rarely do the twain sync up. Apple’s as guilty as any company of hyping the holy living you-know-what out of its ideas, but that’s no reason to make the critical mistake of throwing every claim under the bus.

For instance:

Apple never claimed 64-bit makes the iPhone 5S faster at launch.

When Apple’s Phil Schiller unveiled the iPhone 5S on September 10, he first described it as “the most forward-thinking phone we’ve ever created.” That’s not hype — it is forward-thinking. Neither is his point that having a full 64-bit architecture means applications can employ a more efficient “modern instruction set,” – can being the operative word here.

Yes, Schiller claimed Apple’s A7 system-on-a-chip has the potential to be a whole lot faster than the A6 — up to twice as fast at both CPU and GPU tasks — but don’t forget there’s much more to the A7 than just the 64-bit rethink. Schiller’s claim extends to the A7′s higher core clock speeds, faster LPDDR3 memory and quad-core PowerVR graphics chip — all independent improvements — and we’ll have to see how they hash out when the independent benchmarks arrive.

Apple’s take on 64-bit isn’t mere “marketing fluff.”

This Extreme Tech piece is both agreeable and informative, but the title’s too dismissive. As noted above, Apple’s made no claims that the 64-bit processor in the iPhone 5S equates to immediately faster performance.

But it’s inaccurate to dismiss 64-bit as “fluff” given the foundation it’s building for register efficiency, floating points instructions and memory addressability (granted on the latter it’ll be some time before Apple’s putting more than 4GB of memory in an iPhone).

We’ll have to see what the benchmarks tell us, but ChAIR Entertainment, the studio behind the first 64-bit iOS game Infinity Blade III (launching next week), claims it’s seeing quantifiable improvements already. “One of the things we’ve found is that it really is quite a bit more powerful,” ChAIR co-founder Geremy Mustard told Mashable. “Having a native 64-bit means instructions process more efficiently and we actually get a much higher boost for that.”

That said, iOS apps are 32-bit — they have no idea what 64-bit is.

32-bit apps won’t benefit an iota from the A7′s new 64-bit architecture. Except for iOS 7 itself, which is going to exist for a while in a kind of 32-bit/64-bit limbo that may or may not result in tangible 64-bit-related performance improvements (again, wait for the benchmarks) as well as Infinity Blade III. That’s the entirety of your 64-bit spectrum if you’re picking up an iPhone 5S next week.

Not that Apple shouldn’t be touting the A7′s 64-bit-ness.

Every consumer-angled 64-bit chipmaker bragged about word size when it made the jump, a tradition that extends at least as far back as the Nintendo 64 (a console that probably did more to mythologize what 64-bit means than anything before it or since).

Someone had to be first, and so long as we’re clear that the performance benefits lie in the chip’s potential, why wouldn’t you boast a little? Again, it’s right there on Apple’s iPhone 5S page: the marketing sub-hed at the top reads “Forward Thinking.” Because it is.

But how far forward are we talking?

There’s the rub: probably far enough that you shouldn’t buy the iPhone 5S next week on the 64-bit argument alone (the A7′s unrelated and immediate performance perks, the phone’s improved camera, the fingerprint scanner, the motion coprocessor, and the new bling coloring are different questions).

But when you start asking questions like “Should I skip this generation?” you’re into the speculation game — a game that involves crystal ball-gazing about unknowable developer timetables and assumptions about when Apple’s going to release its next iPhone.

Thus I’d simply follow what I see as Apple’s own rhetorical guidance here: admire the “forward thinking” 64-bit shift, but don’t bank on it.

43 comments
NetWorkdood
NetWorkdood

By the time 64-bit computing is of any relevance on a smartphone, the iPhone 5S will be considered obsolete, or close to it - silly Apple fanboys....

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

As usual, Apple banks on the ignorance of its customers.  It says "64 bit processor replacing 32 bit processor!" and that's the truth.  The implication is that it's faster, because it's "twice".  That impression is something they do not go out of their way to deny or correct.  And that false impression is something the generally less tech savvy people who are Apple customers will immediately believe because it seems intuitive.  Twice as many bits means it does twice the work, right?

Not when you consider the way processors work - which is not something the average person (let alone Apple user) understands.  Processor speed is based on cycles (for the most part).  Not how many bits it can chunk in each cycle.  That's because a 32 bit program only delivers 32 bits per cycle even if the processor can handle 64 bits at a time.  It's a limitation of the program, not the processor, because the program can only execute (or run) at a 32 bit at a time speed.  There are some slight improvements in efficiency in the way the data is moved from place to place as it's processed when you use a 64 bit processor, but you won't see it except as numbers on a screen under bench testing.  The differences aren't readily noticeable to the average person.  And that rather undermines the idea that it's "faster".  Sure, if you're good at parsing hundredths to billionths of a second.  Most people aren't so "faster" is only going to be another misleading notion when it comes to noticing any differences.

All of this is a complicated explanation for a simple thing: 64 bits isn't any faster than 32 bits in any meaningful way when using 32 bit programs and OS's.

And in Apple's case, the chances of developers bothering with making 64 bit "apps" are pretty much nil because the other features of 64 bit processors that make them good choices for desktops and laptops (like better data throughput, larger RAM capacity, etc), don't translate at all to cell phones and aren't likely to for the next five to ten years.  It's "forward thinking" assuming people want to replace their computers with easily lost, easily broken, easily stolen, company-controlled cell phones, but I don't see that happening pretty much ever.  So I see the 64 bit processor in cell phones to be nothing more than a marketing gimmick, and at this point in cell phone evolution, a pointless one to try to make Apple seem "innovative".

Maybe five or ten years from now - long after the life expectancy of these phones - having one will make sense.  But not in the time these phones are expected to last.

RobinDonaldDeVallon
RobinDonaldDeVallon

Alright alright alright..... the 64 bit feature is a bit of a hype and it ain´t.... That´s what I read..  ´should be a step forward because it´s "Forward Thinking" ?? I have a 4S I am not "happy" with because I don´t have "kids" fingers at both ends of my hands which can rattle off text like I still can on my big Logitech... so to compensate with my deficiencies I just don´t text... I check who´s been tweeting and while the general text is to small to read properly I can wipe to enlarge... and probably be happy with it.. My second spoof with the iPhone is the keyboard which gets in the way all the time when I don´t need it... Now ..if that qwerty board could spring up at command ONLY... I´d be fine with what Apple does or intends to do with it´s Smartfone... It´ll still be a phone, I hope.. else I´ll dump the gadget for good... and go back to "phone" only....  Donah..// PS.. if I were so fed up with the phone I could buy a palet of iPad... so what am I yelling about...?? I tol´ ya.. !!

tarunvignesh
tarunvignesh

@mattpeckham I do agree with you that computational/graphic intensive programs would benefit from a 64 bit architecture. The benefits would be in the long term since 64 bit applications do have a larger memory footprint.
 From a techno-marketing standpoint this transition is indeed aimed at disrupting/confusing  its competitors - 
http://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/2785-apple-s-64-bit-plan-finish-android.html


Read more: http://techland.time.com/2013/09/13/why-in-the-world-would-you-need-a-64-bit-smartphone/#ixzz2h3qTEWJG

devilkazama
devilkazama

Be careful with your language. Marketing and advertising are often mistaken for the same thing. The truth is advertising is only a very small part of the marketing mix.

DonFerris
DonFerris

Apple does not work according to the latest trends - it is far ahead of this.

It prepares for the future, where others are still in the present. This is why Apple survives in a world of copycats.

harveylubin
harveylubin

Matt Peckham: "Apple never claimed 64-bit makes the iPhone 5S faster at launch."

Matt, your "claim to fame" is that you have an "M.A. in English".... that gives you ZERO credibility in understanding 64-bit computing!

The benefits of the iPhone 5S 64-bit environment (64-bit A7 processor, running 64-bit apps, on 64-bit iOS 7) are HUGE!!!

There is an article on All Things D today that explains what a radical improvement this is. Here are a few quotes from the article, which interviewed REAL experts like Kevin Krewell, senior analyst at the Linley Group and a senior editor of Microprocessor Report, and Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group:

“The fact that the A7 has twice as many processor registers means that more operations can occur without the processor using main memory, which is slower to access,” Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group toldAllThingsD. “This means for that, for some codes, the A7 will be twice as fast (or faster, depending on how many memory accesses the original code had) to run code, because the processor doesn’t have to use main memory as much.”

“The ARMv8 instruction set is clean-slate approach with many improvements. Even without 4GB of RAM, the A7 should make it easier to build larger applications like PC-class games and programs. Apps can now become real desktop-class programs and games.”

"with the 64-bit A7, Apple has made it possible for developers to take the 64-bit apps they’re written for the Mac and bring them to iOS 7 with relative ease. And that is a huge benefit"

“This will not be true with Android, by the way. The Android Java app and native app environment will need support from Oracle, who owns the Java environment as well as 64-bit support from the Android kernel. Android has a lot more moving pieces to coordinate, and will take longer to go to 64-bit.”

eagle11772
eagle11772

WHY would I need a 64-bit smartphone ? !  What a ridiculous question !  To cook my scrambled eggs, make my morning coffee, get me up in the morning, run my life for me, and provide me with sex !  Why would you even ask such a silly question ? !

kevin.callens.ahs
kevin.callens.ahs

@DonFerris  True that. Apple introduced the 64-bit processor so the software can adapt to the 64-bit processor and everything will work flawlessly when the time is right. It will be far ahead by then and the competition will try to follow and lead into crashing apps, etc... . Be prepared for an 4GB ram ipad in the near future.

FrankHunter
FrankHunter

@DonFerris  hahahahahahahahahahahaha,  hahahahahahahahaha, U clueless person, Apple didn't invent the wheel, they just made it look all shiny, then tells the whole world they invented the tire, then sues all that makes a round tire

coder.slynk
coder.slynk

@harveylubin This is all junk. Sorry. The biggest bottleneck is the limited memory space iOS provides you. The same is true with Android development. 50mb of memory for your app to use when you're trying to build "larger applications like PC-class games and programs" is going to be a much larger road block than how fast the cpu is. How do I know? Because I'm a lead dev who has been working for over a year on an app with heavy bitmap and video manipulation. Is that enough credibility for you? Or would you like to make fun of me as well for not having a degree? Being able to copy paste another person's blog post hardly gives you the "credibility" to argue about something you don't understand yourself.

FrankHunter
FrankHunter

@harveylubin Where are all the 64 bit apps, till then you basically have a 34 bit phone,

How would you know what Matt studied in college, BOY....

middlefraz
middlefraz

@harveylubinThe Android kernel is Linux. Android is a user interface and application environment. Linux is already 64 bit, and has been for some time. Linux on ARM is 32 bit only in the same vein that Linux on any 32 bit core is restricted at the device driver level. iOS on A6 is not 64 bit either, since the underlying hardware does not support it. I have news for you. Apple is the first to market with an ARMv8 compliant core, but other manufacturers already have competing 64 bit implementations in house, and 64 bit Linux on ARMv8 already exists. Getting the Java level apps to run at 64 will take some work, but not that much, since 64bit Java is already available for Intel processors.

A7 is just ARMv8. Nothing more. Nothing less. And every ARM architecture licensee has access to the some underlying design. A year from now there will be several 64 bit ARM cores on the market, all running ARMv8 compliant instructions.

mattpeckham
mattpeckham moderator

@harveylubin Harvey, how could you so completely miss the point of my piece? I didn't say they *weren't* potentially huge. Did you just read the title and skip to the comments section?

In any event, assuming someone's expertise stems from a college degree either way kind of puts the lack of credibility shoe on the other foot.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@FrankHunter @DonFerris

Frank, I hate to break it to you, but Apple Inc. is not in the wheel and tire business. Maybe you were thinking of Firestone. ;-))

harveylubin
harveylubin

@coder.slynk @harveylubin

coder.slynk: "This is all junk"

Yes, I understand that facts are "junk" to people who refuse to accept reality. ;-))

And calling yourself a "lead dev" of some nebulous and unnamed project DOES NOT give you any credibility when it comes to "facts" (or as you call it "junk" ;-))

So here are some facts that (unfortunately for you) DO NOT support your ludicrous claims that there is a "bottleneck in the limited memory space of iOS" and that 64-bit apps and games are "are going to be a much larger road block than how fast the cpu is".

Both CNET and AnandTech have now published a series of benchmarks comparing the iPhone 5S to the top Android phones, including the "fastest" Android phone, the LG G2.

Specs:

- iPhone 5S -- 2 cores @1.3 GHz, with 1GB of RAM

- LG G2 -- 4 cores @2.26 GHz,, with 2GB of RAM

Looking at the specs for the LG G2 (the fastest Android phone) you would think that it should be about 4-times faster than the iPhone 5S, since it has twice as many cores and almost double the GHz. 

But the iPhone 5S beat the LG G2 by a WIDE margin!!! 

Here are some of the benchmark results. The first 6 benchmarks are from AnandTech, and the last 3 benchmarks are from Engadget... so if you have a problem with this "junk" (a.k.a. "facts") take it up with them :-))

SunSpider 1.0.1 (ms): iPhone 5S =416 -- LG G2=931 (iPhone 5S was more than TWICE as fast!)

Mozilla Kraken 1.1:  iPhone 5S =5,905 -- LG G2=10,067 (iPhone 5S was almost TWICE as fast!)

Google Octane v1:  iPhone 5S =5,500 -- LG G2=2,978 (iPhone 5S was almost TWICE as fast!)

Browsermark 2:  iPhone 5S =3,451 -- LG G2=3,274 (iPhone 5S was about 7% faster!)

GLBench 2.7 T-Rex HD: iPhone 5S =37  -- LG G2=23  (iPhone 5S was more than 50% faster!)

GLBench 2.7 Egypt HD: iPhone 5S =53  -- LG G2=47  (iPhone 5S was more than 10% faster!)

Basemark X (onscreen): iPhone 5S =27.7 -- LG G2=14.8  (iPhone 5S was almost TWICE as fast!)

Geekbench 3.0 (multi-thread): iPhone 5S =2,562 -- LG G2=2,140 (iPhone 5S was about 20% faster!)

Linpack: iPhone 5S =795  -- LG G2=611  (iPhone 5S was about 30% faster!)

harveylubin
harveylubin

@FrankHunter @harveylubin

Frank, just a few things to point out for you:

1) There is no such thing as a "34 bit phone" because there is no such thing as a 34-bit processor (remember than computers are binary-based)

2) I'll let you in on a secret as to how you too can "know what Matt studied in college".... Ready? (drumroll)... read his bio!!!

3) To answer your question "Where are all the 64 bit apps"... they are inside the iPhone 5S. All of the apps that come with the iPhone 5S, including the Office productivity apps (Pages, Numbers, and Keynote) and the creative apps (like iPhoto and iMovie) are ALL 64-bit. And other developers will have 64-bit apps available to download on day-one, including the much heralded 64-bit version of Infinity Blade 3. So fear not. There will be plenty of 64-bit apps for users as soon as they activate their brand new iPhone 5S. ;-))

harveylubin
harveylubin

@middlefraz @harveylubin

middlefraz, that quote I provided about Android's difficulty in moving to 64-bit is not anything that I said, so it's pointless to argue with me about it. 

That quote comes from Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group, who knows what he is talking about. So if you have an issue with it, and you believe that you know better than Mr. Howe, you should contact him and "set him straight"... but I have a strong suspicion that he is much more knowledgeable in this area than you are. ;-))

harveylubin
harveylubin

@mattpeckham @harveylubin

Matt, your article clearly puts forward the notion that there is no immediate benefit to 64-bit processing on the iPhone 5S:

"But how far forward are we talking? There’s the rub: probably far enough that you shouldn’t buy the iPhone 5S next week on the 64-bit argument alone"

The experts disagree with that opinion.

I would suggest that you read the full article. The take-away is that for less complex and demanding 64-bit apps, you probably won't see a huge increase in speed. But for computationally intensive apps (including games like Infinity Blade 3) there WILL be a noticeable speed boost.

And to say "Except for iOS 7 itself, which is going to exist for a while in a kind of 32-bit/64-bit limbo that may or may not result in tangible 64-bit-related performance improvements (again, wait for the benchmarks) as well as Infinity Blade III. That’s the entirety of your 64-bit spectrum if you’re picking up an iPhone 5S next week." is a FUD statement if I've ever heard one.

It is quite obvious that running 64-bit apps, on a 64-bit operating system, on the 64-bit A7 processor, WILL provide "tangible 64-bit-related performance improvements". Saying "may not" is untrue for complex apps included with the iPhone 5S (like iMovie, iPhoto, the iWork apps, the camera app, etc.) as well as for third-party apps that will be available on launch day and thereafter, like Infinity Blade 3. 

But I agree with you that once benchmarking is done by reputable labs, it should clear the air of any current doubts.

And the last sentence in your article: "Thus I’d simply follow what I see as Apple’s own rhetorical guidance here: admire the “forward thinking” 64-bit shift, but don’t bank on it."

I'm quite sure that Apple's intent in using the phrase "forward thinking” is NOT meant to imply that benefits will only be realized in the future. You may want to check with Apple, but it seems logical that "forward thinking” really means that 64-bit computing will continue to expand to other iOS mobile devices, and into the future. 

From all indications, the benefits of 64-bit computing on the iPhone 5S will be apparent on day one.

JoeOliveira
JoeOliveira

@harveylubin @FrankHunter @DonFerris 


YOU'RE AN IDIOT HARVEY! HE WAS USING AS A METAPHOR!

coder.slynk
coder.slynk

@harveylubin @coder.slynk Who. Who benchmark's their apps? It either lags or it doesn't. You can see it visually during a normal QA session. Putting a "score" on how fast your app runs is not only pointless, but a waste of time. If you need to test speed you use a high resolution timer to measure performance, not some benchmarking software. 

"there are no common apps that will run on ALL platforms." Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and thousands of other apps. Please just stop posting here.

You can continue thinking you're "explaining" something to a software developer but you're just embarrassing yourself.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@coder.slynk @harveylubin

Exactly why would you benchmark your app... just because other developers do? 

If your app is so non processor intensive that it does not make any difference testing its running speed to optimize it on whatever platform(s) it runs, then you are right... why waste time testing it? 

But developers who do need to optimize their processor intensive apps (such as 3D games) do it to test and retest the code.

"benchmark suites you listed don't benchmark other apps"

Duh!!!

That is why there are benchmark suites to test computer systems' performance... other than the games and apps that are included in the cross-platform benchmark suites, there are no common apps that will run on ALL platforms.

If it was possible to use example test Photoshop to benchmark all computer systems, I'm sure someone would do it... BUT, Photoshop ONLY runs on some platforms, so it is senseless to use it in cross-platform benchmarking.

I should not have to be explaining such elementary information to a software developer.

coder.slynk
coder.slynk

@harveylubin @coder.slynk Why would I benchmark my app? What would be the point? You obviously have never developed software. The benchmark suites you listed don't benchmark other apps, just their own code; I don't know how you can type out what these suites do and not understand that.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@coder.slynk @harveylubin "Did any of those benchmarks test any real world applications?"

Of course they did!!!

You call yourself a "dev" but you have never benchmarked your own "app" to optimize it?

Here are some descriptions of those benchmark tests, and the "real world" aspect of each one:

SunSpider is a benchmark suite that aims to measure JavaScript performance on tasks relevant to the use of JavaScript in the real world, such as encryption and text manipulation. (JavaScript is integral to browser speed!)

Kraken is another JavaScript test suite from Mozilla.

Google's Octane is another JavaScript test suite.

GLBench 2.7 T-Rex HD uses console-quality 3D rendered gaming content, of a game with a motorcycle-rider and a T-Rex.

GLBench 2.7 Egypt HD uses console-quality 3D rendered gaming content, of a game with a character in an ancient Egyptian setting.

Basemark X is professional performance evaluation tool for objective cross platform comparisons of game graphics, built on top of a real-world game engine, Unity 4. It contains heavy graphics content and pushes tested devices to the limit.

Geekbench 3 features tests designed to simulate real-world scenarios with processor-intensive tasks and covers encryption, image processing, physics simulations and signal processing.

LINPACK Benchmarks are a measure of a system’s floating point computing power.

As a person who claims to be a software developer, it is unbelievable that you are unaware of these benchmark suites, and that they perform "real world" tests!

Any competent developer would use at least some of these benchmark suites in the testing phase of their software development, and they certainly would be knowledgable about any others!!!

 coder.slynk:"But again, what do I know."

Exactly!!! ;-))

coder.slynk
coder.slynk

@harveylubin @coder.slynk Trying to discredit me because I do not hand you a resume, a background check, and a drug test is a silencing technique, not arguing with me. Ex: "And calling yourself a "lead dev" of some nebulous and unnamed project DOES NOT give you any credibility when it comes to "facts""

Again, you didn't read what I wrote. Did any of those benchmarks test any real world applications? No? Then how do your "facts" counter my statements?

You will see little to no difference with real world applications in a 64bit vs 32bit debate. This has been discussed for years in the desktop computing space. You can continue to post algorithm benchmarks but it just further shows your lack of understanding on what those benchmarks actually mean. I work on a computationally intense android and iPhone app for a living, what do you do?

Bottlenecks in REAL applications:
--Rapid file access when scrolling through images because there is not enough memory for a simple in-memory bitmap cache.
--Slow bitmap manipulation with images too large to load into memory.
--Texture size limit for games because a texture must first be loaded into RAM before being transferred to VRAM, thus limiting the size of a texture to what you can load into memory.

I have *never* heard a mobile developer *ever* say "you know, I wish the cpu on this phone was faster..." But again, what do I know. -.-

harveylubin
harveylubin

@coder.slynk @harveylubin

"Wow, way to not read a damn thing I wrote."

That is a bizarre thing to write, when I actually quoted you in my response! 

Your comments that there is a "bottleneck in the limited memory space of iOS" and that 64-bit iOS apps and games are "are going to be a much larger road block than how fast the cpu is" suggest that there is no discernible benefit to the A7's 64-bit computing power due to these "limitations".

In my response to you, I provide the results of 9 different benchmarks, providing indisputable proof that the A7 is indeed SIGNIFICANTLY faster than even the "fastest" 32-bit smartphone ARM processor (which has TWICE as many cores, and almost TWICE the GHz!).

And your response to this factual information is to continue expounding your misconceptions that it "doesn't mean that you will obtain significant speed increase with most applications".

Providing factual data that disproves your opinion is neither "silencing" you, nor your misbeliefs. ;-))

coder.slynk
coder.slynk

@harveylubin @coder.slynk Wow, way to not read a damn thing I wrote. What part of memory being more important than cpu speed says to you "64bit processors are not faster?" Seriously. Mr. Copy-Paste, I'll try to explain this to your simple mind. Benchmarks run tightly looped algorithms that are non-existent in software because all the loop is meant to do is put a high load on the cpu. So yes, with the correctly written algorithm you can benchmark a cpu with twice the registers as being faster than a 32bit processor. That doesn't mean that you will obtain significant speed increase with most applications however. If you can't understand that, then please stop pasting things you find on the internet because some of us actually know what we're talking about.

What does it matter if I can process bitmaps faster if I still, to this day, can't load into memory a raw 30MP image? On a desktop application, many games get 4Gb+ ram to use. Modern day consoles get at least 1GB and next gen is getting more. On mobile platforms you get 50 mb. 50, that's it. It doesn't matter if your phone has 4gb or 128GB of ram, the system only allows for a tiny memory space for your app. And THAT is going to limit the potential of an application before the speed of a CPU. Man you can't read.

I'm the lead android developer for a highly successful startup in Raleigh, NC. We raise $1.1 mill a few months ago and we're looking to rase 4 times that amount in the next round. I could really care less for your cynicism. What you are doing is called "silencing;" you latch on to the idea that the people you are talking to shouldn't be talking so you try to discredit them. 

harveylubin
harveylubin

@markmmullins

Exactly! Even though there are immediate benefits to having processor-intensive 64-bit apps running on the iPhone 5S, I would bet that many people are not really concerned about it.

Most people are not interested in what "64-bit" is, and if you mentioned it they would probably look at you blankly. They just want a smartphone that meets their needs in all respects.

That's why some people choose Android phones, some people choose Blackberry or Windows Phones, and some people choose iPhone.

For the new iPhone, some people are focused on photography, and they may gravitate to the iPhone 5S because of the high-quality camera.

Some people need a phone for business use, and they may want the iPhone 5S for the added security measures of the fingerprint scanner, and the additional enterprise and security features in iOS 7.

There may even be some people who do care about the benefits of the iPhone 5S being a fully 64-bit device, and get it so that they can smoothly run processor intensive apps like the camera, do HD video editing in iMovie, or run 3D rendered games like Infinity Blade 3 (BTW, listen to comments from the developer of that game, found on YouTube videos of his presentation, on his experiences of working with the 64-bit processor).

There is no singular reason why a person will choose one smartphone over another.

There is no "perfect" choice for everyone. It's just very irritating when some people annoyingly express their opinions about why they think one product is "bad", and irrationally believe that their choice is the only correct choice for everyone else in the world, and that anyone who chooses differently than they do is an "idiot" in their warped opinion.

But the only thing that their rants demonstrate is that they are so insecure about their own choices, that they feel threatened that someone has chosen something different than they did.

I don't have a problem discussing the pros and cons of anything, in fact I enjoy these types of discussions, as long as the conversation is kept rational and sticks to factual information rather than baseless opinions. 

But when I encounter one of those irrational, opinionated, bile-spewing individuals in these discussions (which happens far too often) I wonder why they are wasting not only my time, and the time of other serious commenters, but also their own time.

markmmullins
markmmullins

Ok first I had to hit reply 20 times to get it to work on my LG Optimus G Pro. Everytime I leave IOS to go to Android stuff just doesn't work right. That's why I have to go back and get a 5S. Just wish it had a bigger screen.

Anyway Harvey I have to agree with everything you said. It's funny how people reply and don't even reread what they say. Then Oops it sounds like an angry twelve year old is replying.

The article did imply that the 64bit was something for the future and not today. But I agree with both of you that most people will have no perception of the improvement in there 5s with the 64bit so it really is not something to get the 5s for but yes there will be an immediate improvement on how smooth and fast the IOS 7 and certain apps (probably mostly games) will function.

I don't really care about the 64 bits today but maybe a year down the road I will be happy I have it so it is forward thinking. I'm actually excited about the M7 chips possibilities instead.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@GHamidy @harveylubin @FrankHunter @rhonaldmoses @middlefraz

GHamidy, please read and comprehend what is written in my comments, instead of just fabricating your own erroneous impressions of what you THINK I wrote. (And writing LOL in your comment only confirms to others how absurd it is).

Let me clarify things for you so that you can understand how ludicrous your comment is. You wrote:

"I replied to your comment to @middlefraz "but I have a strong suspicion that he is much more knowledgeable in this area than you are"which is insulting and disregarding @middlefraz because he is disagree with your opinion. So who's being the first here? ;) 

Quoting an expert in my original comment, Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group, and then telling middlefraz "but I have a strong suspicion that he is much more knowledgeable in this area than you are" when he disagrees with that expert is logical reasoning, and in NO WAY "insulting"!!!

No rational person could EVER come to that conclusion!

You then go on, making matters worse for yourself, by writing "because he is disagree with your opinion".

If you had read and understood what is written, you would know that the quote was NOT my opinion, but (and I repeat this once more!) it was a quote from the expert, Carl Howe!!!

And then you go on to write the absurd comment "I believe your hatred to me"!?!

Anyone reading these comments (except you apparently) know that I have NEVER expressed hatred toward you!... 

The word that describes the belief that people are against you, when they are not, is "paranoia". A more specific quoted definition is:

"Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia."

GHamidy
GHamidy

@harveylubin @FrankHunter @rhonaldmoses @GHamidy @middlefraz Just read your reply, and I LOL'd, and I can't believe how you accuse me of being the first who insults other. I think I replied to your comment to @middlefraz 

"but I have a strong suspicion that he is much more knowledgeable in this area than you are"

which is insulting and disregarding @middlefraz because he is disagree with your opinion. So who's being the first here? ;)

So judging from your comment, which shows your natural response to this article and comments which criticize your favourite smartphone, we can see what happened here.

In the other hand, you didn't response to the real context of my comment, which I believe your hatred to me (who is accusing you as fanboy) is higher than ever. You better check yourself on that ;)

harveylubin
harveylubin

@rhonaldmoses @harveylubin @GHamidy @middlefraz

rhonaldmoses. I'm wondering if you meant to say "psychology", NOT "philosophy" which is the study of the fundamental nature of reality and existence.

On the other hand, "psychology" is the scientific study of the human mind, and there is also nothing of that in my response to GHamidy, reproaching his odious behaviour.

But what I do gather from your comment is that you are in support of GHamidy's "right" to be insulting and offensive to others. If that is your stance, then I don't hold you in very high regard either.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@GHamidy @harveylubin @middlefraz

GHamidy, it's indisputable that people who rant and are insulting to others, as you have exemplified in your comment, are the real fanatics. When you say "fanatic fanboy who is angry", it's quite obvious that the fanaticism and anger is your own.

It's clear that you have lost any sense of objectivity or common courtesy. Whatever nonsense drives you to act this way, it is for you to examine and hopefully rectify.

GHamidy
GHamidy

@harveylubin @middlefraz Yes, but I have more suspicion that you are no other than fanatic fanboy who is angry with people criticizing your thousand dollars overpriced phone.

And for Oracle support, I highly doubt that Android will need Oracle support to update their environment. Android never use Java VM, and they use Dalvik VM instead. The only thing that relates Oracle and Android is because Android is borrowing Java *programming language* (see my emphasis) which is now owned by Oracle for their application development. Do you know the differences between writing programming language and executing program?

Then the other thing about performance increase of registers within the processor, you better know what is the purpose of the register and how it is different with memory. If you say that the processor has a larger *cache* (see my emphasis) then you can say there will be major performance increase in terms of memory access. While about registers, it will not be visible unless the program/apps/OS utilizes it completely. Well, technically those are basic facts about computer architecture.

I think you also better check your sources, mate. Do not digest anything only from single source. Perhaps Wikipedia is a very good place to start. ;)

mattpeckham
mattpeckham moderator

@harveylubin @mattpeckham Harvey, I'm essentially saying that whatever immediate benefits are in the offing -- iOS 7 speedups, IB3 -- courtesy the 64-bit shift at launch, they'll be academic, especially to someone ineligible for an upgrade and weighing the 64-bit shift as part of a pros/cons list.

Lots of other reasons to think about an iPhone 5S at launch, which I've laid out in another piece, but the 64-bit A7 is about the future, not the present. Nothing wrong with that, by the way. Note I'm just as critical of those dismissing the 64-bit shift as mere hype.

harveylubin
harveylubin

@mattpeckham @harveylubin

Matt Peckham: "And no, my article doesn't put forward the notion that there are *no* immediate benefits. Read it carefully."

Matt, I must have misunderstood your meaning when you wrote:

"But how far forward are we talking? There’s the rub: probably far enough that you shouldn’t buy the iPhone 5S next week on the 64-bit argument alone"

Perhaps I misinterpreted it, and that you actually were in agreement that there ARE immediate benefits to 64-bit computing on the iPhone 5S, as you now suggest.

Maybe in writing "probably far enough that you shouldn’t buy the iPhone 5S next week on the 64-bit argument alone" you were really saying that although there are "immediate benefits", having those benefits "immediately" is too far into the future to warrant buying the iPhone 5S next week... is that correct!?!

mattpeckham
mattpeckham moderator

@harveylubin @mattpeckham Harvey, you don't seem to understand the article you're citing (or who the "experts" are). The quote from Carl Howe could have come from my piece, because it refers to software coded to take advantage of the 64-bit architecture. Outside of iOS 7 and IB3, which I grant *may* see a performance boost (while cautiously noting we should wait to pronounce one way or another until we see real benchmarks), that software doesn't exist today.

And no, my article doesn't put forward the notion that there are *no* immediate benefits. Read it carefully.